Extravagant generosity: an interview with Paul Hargreaves

Paul Hargreaves is an author, speaker and CEO of Cotswold Fayre, one of the UK's leading speciality and fine food wholesalers. In this podcast we discuss the concept of extravagant generosity and explore key themes in his two books. We also dive into why Paul believes that people and planet must come before profit and why this approach is at the root of Cotswold Fayre's success.

Interviewer: Today, I'm going to be talking to Paul Hargreaves - author, speaker, and CEO of Cotswold Fayre - - about why he believes that extravagant generosity is the key to business success. We'll also discuss why people and the planet must come before profit, which Paul believes is at the root of his business's success. Paul, welcome.

Paul: Good to be here. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Interviewer: When I first heard the term "extravagant generosity" I was intrigued. What exactly does it mean? Is it generosity dripping with jewels? What makes it extravagant, and why use that term instead of just "generosity"?

Paul: Well, what I'm trying to convey is the idea of giving before you receive. Many people see generosity as giving out of abundance - giving because they have plenty. But I dislike the phrase "giving something back" because it implies that you took something in the first place. Maybe we shouldn't take so much to begin with.

Most people in the global north live with a scarcity mindset, even those who consider themselves generous. I battle this in myself, within our organization, and in the wider culture. With the word "extravagant," I want to emphasize the exuberance and joy of giving. Many perceive giving as painful, but I believe that some of our happiest moments come from giving - whether that's cooking a fantastic meal for someone, helping someone financially, or supporting them in another way. Extravagant generosity should feel joyful and a little over the top - - that's the way to be.

Interviewer: That's a powerful perspective. Can you share some examples of extravagant generosity within your own business?

Paul: Sure. Some of the things we do may be common in other companies, but I think we take it further. We give away a significant portion of our profits - 25.6% last year. We offer extended time off, including sabbaticals after seven years. We have a profit-sharing model and a care fund to support employees facing financial difficulties due to illness or bereavement.

We also pay employees to volunteer in their communities - whether in charities, schools, or other projects. Generosity is at the heart of our business. One simple but impactful practice we follow is that we never start meetings by talking about numbers. Instead, we begin by discussing something we've done for people or the planet. This sets the right tone - if numbers always come first, employees feel like they matter less than profits. But people are the most important part of a business.

Interviewer: That's such a simple yet profound shift. You're not just being generous but also reinforcing it in the company culture.

Paul: Exactly. Businesses have historically been takers rather than givers - extracting from people and the planet for profit. We want to do the opposite. That requires changing habits, which we do by reinforcing generosity in daily operations. In meetings, we also check in on how everyone is doing personally. If someone is struggling, that's more important than this week's profits. This shift costs nothing but makes a huge impact on morale and mindset.

Interviewer: You've also written about "servant-hearted leadership" in The Fourth Bottom Line. I'd heard of servant leadership, but "servant-hearted" seems like a different emphasis. Can you explain the distinction?

Paul: Yes, the term "servant-hearted" adds an emotional and compassionate dimension to leadership. If servant leadership is just a technique to improve efficiency, it lacks depth. True servant-hearted leadership requires genuine care, compassion, and even love for the people you lead.

Love is rarely discussed in business, but I believe leaders should love their employees. That means feeling their struggles and joys, not just implementing leadership strategies. It's about being emotionally engaged, not just going through the motions.

Interviewer: That's a refreshing take on leadership. In Forces for Good, you emphasize that businesses should be a powerful force for positive change. Was there a defining moment that led you down this path?

Paul: Yes, two key moments shaped my perspective. Before starting my business, I worked in the charity sector for ten years. But over time, I felt we were just mopping up the mess caused by businesses and government policies. When I started my company, I wanted it to actively make the world better. That's why we hired people recovering from addiction and those with criminal records from the outset.

The second defining moment came in 2014, 15 years into the business. We nearly lost everything due to a massive IT failure. Before that, I had become disillusioned - our business was supposed to make a difference, but it felt draining and unfulfilling. My personal life was also falling apart, and I reached rock bottom. That crisis forced me to reset.

Shortly after, we discovered B Corp certification, which transformed our approach. Since then, I love business in a way I never did before. Now, my work aligns with my purpose - not just making money but creating positive impact.

Interviewer: That's an incredible journey. Let's talk about B Corp. You were one of the 60 founding UK B Corps, and now there are thousands worldwide. What has that experience been like?

Paul: Yes, we were early adopters in the UK, and the movement has grown rapidly. There are now over 2,600 UK B Corps and more than 10,000 worldwide, with around 100 new ones certified in the UK each month. It's exciting to see more businesses commit to putting people and the planet before profit.

Interviewer: As a B Corp ambassador, what's your message to business leaders considering this path?

Paul: My message is simple: the traditional profit-first model is outdated and unsustainable. Businesses have a responsibility to be forces for good. Becoming a B Corp helps structure that commitment and ensures accountability. It's not just about marketing - it's about embedding purpose into your DNA.

Interviewer: Now, you're a B Corp ambassador. What's the inside track here? Why is it really resonating right now? Why are so many organizations taking the energy and time to invest in this pretty significant accreditation?

Paul: Yeah. Well, I think the world has changed, number one. Yes, there were B Corps around since - well, I think the first one in the UK was about 2013. The organization started properly in 2015, like you said.

I think people's emphasis has changed, particularly since COVID. Right up to the start of COVID, there were still only about 200 and something B Corps in the UK, but there's been a massive explosion since then. I think people took the time to reflect more. Some people weren't working, and they thought, What am I doing with my life? What am I doing with the company?

For me, it was a similar realization in 2014 - there's got to be a better way of doing this. We have strongly encouraged many of our suppliers to become B Corps because we've seen the difference it makes to our company. We believe they'll be better companies and better suppliers if they implement the changes we have.

We now have over 80 of our own suppliers as part of that community of two and a half thousand, which is pretty impressive. It's actually one of the things I'm most proud of from the last few years. It changes the basis on which you do business, and I think that becomes very attractive, particularly to the younger generations entering the workplace.

They don't just want to work for a business that's making people rich or benefiting only the top directors. They want to work for a business that has a positive impact on the world around them. More and more, I think businesses like ours will prosper and flourish, while businesses that are purely profit-driven will start to decline. And that's not just because of ethical reasons - it's because they won't be able to attract good people.

For us, one of the biggest benefits of being a B Corp is that we have fantastic people working for us - people who are attracted to our company because of what we stand for.

Interviewer: Do you see this as a mindset shift - people and planet? Can you talk a bit more about this? Because, of course, all businesses have to make a profit or they wouldn't be in business.

Paul: The danger is that when times are tough, profit becomes everything, and the people and planet side get pushed aside. That's when businesses fall back into a scarcity mindset.

The way I see it now is: if you put people and planet first, the profits will follow. That has been true for us. It doesn't mean every year is easy - it's not. In fact, we've just had a really difficult year. But we still believe that we're doing the right thing, and it will pay off in the long run.

I've been fortunate to travel in Asia, and many of the religions there have a deep sense of community-mindedness. People give and help others not because they expect something in return, but because they believe that's the right way to live - and that it will come back to them in some way.

I think businesses need to adopt that same mentality. Rather than focusing on taking, we should focus on giving. That doesn't mean every year is flush with cash - far from it. But I truly believe that if you do the right thing, you gain loyalty.

When you're kind and generous to people, they stay longer, they give more, and you build a better company. People don't often leave our business because we've created a strong, supportive culture.

Giving and receiving is a simple principle, but I wonder how many people really embrace it. It's easy to think, Oh no, we can't afford to do that - help! But if you stick to your principles and values, it will pay off.

Interviewer: And, of course, The Sunday Times Best Places to Work listing is about recruitment and retention. Do your employees tend to stay a long time?

Paul: Yes. One of the key measures in the survey for The Sunday Times Best Places to Work is called flight risk - essentially, how likely employees are to leave. Last year, our flight risk score was something ridiculously low, like 2%.

Now, of course, more than 2% of people actually left that year, but the survey measures how happy people feel about working here. So yes, we have a very high retention rate. The challenge, though, is balancing a great workplace with an entrepreneurial mindset. You want people to love working there, but you also need to keep them engaged and challenged. It's a tough balance to strike. If people get too comfortable, they may not feel stretched enough, and in an entrepreneurial culture, that's essential.

Interviewer: Some employers don't always appreciate their loyal employees when times get tough. They don't think laterally about retraining or reskilling them.

Paul: Yes, sometimes it's about moving people around a bit to keep them engaged. People generally like challenges, and if they've been doing the same job for too long, that challenge can disappear. Fortunately, we've grown quite a bit over the last few years, and many of our employees are doing different jobs now than they were four or five years ago. That keeps things fresh and keeps people motivated.

Interviewer: As we head into 2025, everything seems to be getting crazier by the day. I barely want to look at the headlines. How do you see the role of organizations and leaders in these turbulent times?

Paul: You're right - we've had crisis after crisis. Supply chain issues, COVID, wars, massive impacts on stock and packaging... it feels like there's a new crisis every week.

I try not to look at the newspapers too much. But I think the organizations that will thrive are the ones with agility and resilience. That sounds obvious, but it's more important than ever to be flexible. For us - and I believe this applies to many organizations - the best way to handle uncertainty is through self-management. If employees are constantly waiting for directives, it slows everything down. That might work in a large corporation, but in today's world, companies need to be agile. Businesses need to function more like organisms, constantly adapting to their environment. That's how evolution works, isn't it? As a leader, one of my main focuses is encouraging people not to come to me for answers, but to find solutions themselves.

The more capable they become at problem-solving, the more adaptable and resilient we'll be as a business. That's what will help us thrive - not just this year, but for years to come.

Interviewer: It's been really fascinating talking to you today. Thank you so much. For anyone interested, Paul's two books, Forces for Good and The Fourth Bottom Line, are available on Amazon. You can also find out more at www.paulhargraves.co.uk.